The Ambassador of Greece to Australia, George Zois is retiring from the Greek diplomatic service at the beginning of September and he spoke candidly to Neos Kosmos English Edition (NKEE) when giving an account of his three years in Australia.
Mr Zois talked about the current problems arising from the implementation of the Social Security Agreement between the two countries, leaving scores of senior Greek Australians caught in bureaucratic red tape.
Mr Zois also commented on the impending visit of FYROM’s Prime Minister to Australia and addressed the ecclesiastical issue in Australia, which he believes “has been dividing Hellenism for almost five decades.”
Can you give us an account of your term as an Ambassador of Greece in Australia and as a diplomat in general after 35 years of service?
After my three years and two months term here in Australia I have gained a wealth of experience. These experiences were based on the fact that I came in contact withy a thriving Greek community.
Diplomatic relations between the two countries were and still are at an excellent level.
The visits by Greek Prime Minister, Costas Karamanlis, Greek Foreign Minister, Dora Bakoyannis and Deputy Foreign Minister, Mr Kassimis, have all provided a new push to bilateral relations, especially in conjunction with the Greek community in Australia.
This is why I consider myself very lucky having had the opportunity to enrich my knowledge and my experience while staying in Canberra.
I consider it to be my most important posting.
I had the chance to meet a vibrant Greek community that was always committed and dedicated to Hellenic national issues and these are not empty words. I have seen it during my term… and they [members of the Greek community] were always close to the Embassy.
If we didn’t have the problem that is dividing Hellenism for almost five decades [ie. the ecclesiastical issue] – and this is where I disagree with my predecessor who I read somewhere that he said that 35-40 years are not that many – I believe that the particular problem has divided Hellenism for too long, given there is a burning desire to resolve this outstanding issue.
Since you’ve mentioned the ecclesiastical issue, I would like to ask your personal view on the matter and if you ever took any action towards reconciliation?
I did take some action about one and a half to two years back under the instruction of Mr Kassimis and with the consent of His Eminence.
Initially, at the first stage of the negotiations we had come very close to an agreement in the sense that certain views of the Archdiocese – that are completely correct in my opinion – were accepted by the other side. And I believe that there was serious exchange of views.
For example on the issue of striking out the term Orthodox from the official title of non-Archdiocese Communities the other side accepted it without any difficulty.
On the issue of striking out certain articles of their Constitution that called for the appointments of priests… on these issues we came very close to an agreement.
What was and still is needed is to surpass certain obstacles, not to play the blame game and to keep in mind that the wish of the Greek community is to be done with this issue and for everyone to be under the auspices of the Archdiocese.
On the contrary, I consider the initiatives to go under the umbrella of the Old Calendar Orthodox Church a mistake, especially, if they did not have the authorization of their General Meetings.
I don’t know, maybe this effort has not fallen through and I hope so, because it would be a shame to miss such an opportunity… for the two sides to sit down again and find a solution… because this would be the peak of a success story.
So where did the progress of the negotiation stall?
It stalled at the next step, in the ‘give and take’ phase. Plus some promises were not kept. Consequently my efforts were not fully successful or were not followed up.
One of the bilateral issues that was successfully completed during your term was the signing of the Social Security Agreement. Recently, however, Neos Kosmos has received numerous complaints of people who are faced with endless bureaucratic procedures after the enforcement of this Agreement. First of all are aware of the situation?
I’m aware of the basic issues. As you may know, this agreement was signed after almost 25 years of negotiations, an abundant amount of time to figure out possible disadvantages.
But, it was the wish of the overwhelming majority [to sign the Agreement]. Indeed in practise there were bureaucratic obstacles, judging from the low number of people who have lodged an application to receive a pension.
Do you have an idea of the numbers?
My estimates were putting the figure below 5,000 [applicants] but it seems that there are less than 3,000 Greek Australians who have lodged an application to receive a pension from Greece.
How can we supercede these bureaucratic obstacles, which if anything do not do justice to Greece’s reputation?
You’re right, initially they create inflexibility and delays for these people to receive the long awaited pension.
When the agreement was signed, it was stipulated that a directive would be issued to analyse the implementation of the agreement, particularly in realtions to the documents required.
It seems this is where we have stalled. Maybe the document requirements are more than what the applicants can provide.
I believe that we can revisit the issue, if we specify the demands and to clarify which documents are absolutely necessary and which may be exempted because their attainment and submission is not easy.
I believe that certain obstacles can be lifted and we can speed up certain procedures so we can issue these pensions.
One of the issues that has recently arisen is the recognition of the Pontian Genocide. We had a first step taken with the resolution passed by South Australia’s Parliament that was met with fierce opposition form the Turkish Ambassador. Do you believe that the circumstances are ripe for a similar resolution to be brought in the Federal Parliament?
There was fierce opposition but it is a fact that history cannot be rewritten according to the standards of whomever. There are facts that are unquestionable historically that have been proven.
The resolution by the South Australian Parliament was an unexpected victory for Hellenism.
For something comparable to happen at a Federal level will require a lot of work and time.
I have my reservations whether the Federal government is prepared to move to recognise the Pontian Genocide at this point.
Would you like to comment on the current issue of the impending visit of Mr Gruevski to Australia?
Australia has bilateral and diplomatic relations with the former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia (FYROM), so it is logical for officials and dignitaries to visit Australia. From this perspective it is highly logical and therefore expected for a visit to take place, which was scheduled and we knew about it from last year that it was going to take place in 2009.
The issue we are closely monitoring is whether the signing of this Social Security Agreement [between Australia and FYROM] will signal an Australian policy change towards the naming issue.
I don’t that this will happen because we’re at a critical stage of the negotiations [between Greece and FYROM]. I don’t think that Australia would concede to an act that would push the other side to intransigence. Because a recognition on the part of Australia of their so-called constitutional name [ie. Republic of Macedonia], would certainly be a push for them to be more intransigent.
Have you perceived any exertion of pressure from various Australian diplomatic circles towards this direction, meaning a change on the policy that Australia has adhered to on this issue?
No, the positions of the Australian government and the Federal Opposition up until now have been fixed and consistent with our position. But nothing is absolute and constant in foreign policy.
There are always pressures and changes of positions, particularly following recommendations by technocrats. For this reason one should not be complacent or depend on reassurances but monitor the situation closely.